Intersex traits on a Cannabis Plant

[chillbert42]

Greetings and big love all

I wanted to start a discussion on intersex traits, herms, in particular on the differing levels of hermaphroditism cannabis plants are capable of.

please add any thoughts or experiences of yours with intersex traits in cannabis.

i'll get the ball rolling with some random notes on the topic:

- Many strains have come from self-pollinated plants... GG4, Chemdawg, both world reknowned beloved strains, both are herms. GSC, one of the most popular strains of all time, famous for herming... Cherry Pie came from a hermed GDP.... All these strains carry herm genes, and all of their subsequent outcrosses have at least the potential to carry it...

- All cannabis plants have the genetic capability to be both female or male, or at times both.

- Every branch on a cannabis plant has the potential to become either male or female.

- Some plants can temporarily herm in response to a stress then continue to grow as it was (male or female)

-Some plants can develop just a few 'balls' in early flower then continue to grow as female (early slight herm trait)

- Some plants are full herms, with equal amounts of both male and female flowers (big time herm!)

-Some plants throw a few late bananas as a last ditch effort to make seed as a survival mechanism (not a serious issue imo and the reason we have the likes of GG4 and chemdawg quite probably.. also imo)

- several things may cause a plant to herm including significant light leaks (more light needed than many realise) btw plants can see green light too so careful with green torches ! Also erratic lighting schedules can stress plants to herm.

- nutritional stressors / mineral imbalances apparently can contribute to sexual expression too

please add more / feel free to question any of the above.. it would be great to reach some common ground and understanding of whats real and whats broscience when it comes to our favourite plant, that occasionally likes to swing both ways, bat for both teams, live like the romans .. ya know ;)

so..

What do u look for and when in identifying a herm?

What do you do when you discover you have a plant with intersex traits?

Should every such plant be culled ?

When would you not cull a plant with some level of intersex trait?

Any other famous herm strains?

Examples / experiences of plants you had with too many bits ?

Should you make seeds with plants that had intersex traits?

Can/ should you grow out seeds made by plants that hermed? when and when not to?

Any other points, questions, or anything else please feel add

many thanks growers

happy gardening

[Grumpy Toad]

Hey great post!! So me personally I cull the entire tent if I find one that’s Hermes.

[GMO]

I had the pleasure of talking with this gent during spannabis a few years ago https://www.instagram.com/doctord.hudson/

at the time he was finding genetic freaks in regard to herms and males with high (for males) cannabinoid numbers. he is now working on breeding in pathogen resistance to strains using actually tested resistance to things like PM... check him out

[2-Scoops]

Do you think a plant that has nanners in it buds can be or is stress related most of the time where as a true hermie you see both traits with buds and balls usually much earlier than you would see nanners in buds. I would say both are hermie weed plants but one is more stress related and other is more genetics ? I`m far from sure on it, but tis just what i was told and i have since read this.

[bimblebrains]

I've found some of the best plants i've ever ran from herm seeds man,my Banana sauce cut being one of em,i guess alot of herms come out good because they are usually keeper x keeper or at least good x good,but thats not to say you havent got to watch them like a hawk but then again i tend to keep a close eye on everything new i run,bought seeds or herm seeds....have had a fair few good ones herm slightly from seed then behave from cuts so there can be a sexual maturity issue when seedlings are bloomed a tad early maybe i'm guessing,hormone levels n shit.....like you say the whole modern gene pool is based off of herms....viva la herm!!!

[chillbert42]

great questions and points @GMO @2-Scoops @bimblebrains @Momma bear

since starting the post i have learned a couple more things...

technically cannabis doesnt have true hermaphrodites, it has plants that can have intersex traits of varying degrees ie a female with male intersex traits or vice versa

a true hermaphrodite plant must have both male and female sexual parts on the same flower... cannabis does not... it has both separate when both sexes are displayed on an individual plant.

however, to get people to stop using the term herm and start using intersex trait will be about as easy as it will be to get people to stop using indica / sativa and start using the proper terms there too lmao (narrow leaf drug cultivar of high or lowland / broad leaf drug cultivar etc the proper terms have long since been documented but in true stoner style ... ;) )

a few other random notes...

heirloom / landrace populations have a higher chance of containing inter-sex traits than many modern lines do.. this is when proper selection has occured and the gene pool has been narrowed effectively

(some) regular seeds have a higher chance of containing intersex traits as males cant (or rather arent) observed as thoroughly (ie grown out) as much as the females in those lines.

Some people believe fem seeds carry a herm gene as they were reversed at some point.. this is not accurate

seeds from hermed plants are always feminised.. this is because there was no x chromosone present at conception so impossible to be male... they may however carry intersex traits

@GMO great link cheers, now following

@2-Scoops Do you think a plant that has nanners in it buds can be or is stress related most of the time where as a true hermie you see both traits with buds and balls usually much earlier than you would see nanners in buds. I would say both are hermie weed plants but one is more stress related and other is more genetics ? I`m far from sure on it, but tis just what i was told and i have since read this.

Good question and point. Could be stress related, or could be a genetic traits.. difficult to ever know for sure unless you are sure your plant isnt stressed??
both are type of intersex traits for sure, the early balls more worrying with regard to your grow. If genetics this would be a case of poor selection and not stress testing plants prior to selection. Stressors can defo cause this too though, esp fking with the light schedule!)

digressing slightly... a plant takes 6 weeks to make mature good seeds but immature white seeds can be made in a couple of weeks so ... the timing of those late nanners is quite important in relation to the time you harvest.. dont want immature seeds (or any seed in a flower crop)

@bimblebrains "I've found some of the best plants i've ever ran from herm seeds"

and they were all female right?

this doesnt surprise... glad you had the balls to run em (pun intented) lol

"watch them like a hawk but then again i tend to keep a close eye on everything new i run"

this is top top advive and what ever grower should adhere to.. we cant spend enough time observing our plants... and what fun it is to do too !

@Momma bear haha take no chances !! and no prisoners lol cant argue with that !

nice oneall, all great comment thanks

let the great herm... i meant intersex traits debate roll on

keep em poppin and watch em like a hawk :) haha

[GMO]

a true hermaphrodite plant must have both male and female sexual parts on the same flower... cannabis does not

this im not sure is true. i have female calyx that have produced viable pollen from a few male bits poking out of it?? ill get a pic later as the plant im trimming up is one of these dual sex on one flower

[chillbert42]

@gmo are these parts within the same flower formation or just growing together in the same cluster of calyxes?

listening to ryan lee of chimera genetics (botanist and genetisist) (on riot seeds podcast) he explained by true definition cannabis does not have true hermaphrodites only plants with intersex traits due to how the flowers of males and female parts being formed separately.. theres also a good interview with him on the pot cast btw

not that a name makes a huge difference to us as growers and not wanting intersex traits of any name or description lol

pic be interesting for sure... ! cheers bro

[GMO]

@gmo are these parts within the same flower formation or just growing together in the same cluster of calyxes?

listening to ryan lee of chimera genetics (botanist and genetisist) (on riot seeds podcast) he explained by true definition cannabis does not have true hermaphrodites only plants with intersex traits due to how the flowers of males and female parts being formed separately.. theres also a good interview with him on the pot cast btw

not that a name makes a huge difference to us as growers and not wanting intersex traits of any name or description lol

pic be interesting for sure... ! cheers bro

straight up male nana's coming out of a female calyx at the node. like the calyx replaced the pollen sack. no cluster just a single calyx with multiple nanas poking out

Ive heard something about 2 dna markers that determine gender, so there are 4 potential arrangements for example AA female BB male AB intersex and BA intersex. not sure how true this is as i couldnt find any source data to back it up, but it made sense why we see some many potential intersex plants but a good amount of them are stable unless specifically triggered by a single known stress factor, like cookies strains throwing balls if you dont clean up the lowers (like a lack of light penetration causes a stress which triggers the trait) i guess while typing that it does sound more intersex than herm

[bimblebrains]

Yes thats a great interview by riot,chimera is the most knowledgeable guy i've come across taking about this sort of stuff,i'm leaning toward it just being intersex tbh...breeders syndicate is a great podcast man and i like listening to Not so ramble on,lots of geeky history and good info to be had,would love to see a pic of what you were describing @GMO dude.
Yes @chillbert42 every 'herm' seed i've ran have been female but with varying degrees of intersex traits,but i'd say 80% of them have no issues and a few of the other 20% (well the one's that were dealable with,i.e plucking nanna's off and were dank and worth re-running) when ran as cuts had no issues,that banana sauce cut i've posted about on here loads of times was one such plant,very few nanna's from seed then zero ever since and had had about 2 years.I think i'd heard N'specta say that full males are possible from fems but are like 1 in 750 but dont quote me on that,they super rare.
So i guess when thinking about it,lets say your bag seeds come out 80% problem free from just random pollen from a female with slight intersex traits ,then no wonder some breeders are now offering very stable fem lines that have the time,space and ability to test the donors