How much freedom do we have?
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IMO
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
This certainly rings true with me.
I say talke advantage of what you can for yourself and your own family and freinds. Life can be brutal and the control and dictation just gets worse.
This is why we are all here too isn't it
Treat people as if they were what they ought to be and you help them to become what they are capable of being.”
JOHANN WOLFGANG VON GOETHE
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"Insects and disease are the symptoms of a failing crop, not the cause of it. It's not the overpowering invader we must fear but the weakened condition of the victim."
William Albrecht
https://www.organacanna.co.uk/
JOHANN WOLFGANG VON GOETHE
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"Insects and disease are the symptoms of a failing crop, not the cause of it. It's not the overpowering invader we must fear but the weakened condition of the victim."
William Albrecht
https://www.organacanna.co.uk/
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Keeno
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
This is a subject that bounces around my head from time to time. How much freedom do I have in life, does this reflect on rights that I do or dont have, does this reflect on my time, is my time, my money, life, my own...
All deep and wonderful ideas to get lost in. My outlook is both a bit doom and gloom but also beautiful and enlightening in the fact it's doom and gloom... yep, head fuck inbound I think.
I'll start with what freedoms do we have. Not many to be honest. But should we expect a lot of them? I mean what is freedom to you, what is freedom to me. Is freedom me being able to do what I please with my life? Sounds beautiful eh. A nice bit of land with enough livestock and area go be self sufficient. Thats my idea of heaven. But what about my mate dave, dave wants to be able to do nothing all day and be fed. I tell dave, "come on mate, muck in a bit, give us a hand with the food growing and we all get fed". But dave tells me to do one, Dave tells me my idea of freedoms was a bit of land with some cows, his idea of freedom is to sit in the next field and be fed. Whos entitled to their freedoms in a scenario like that.
Now let's look at rights. Are my rights affected by freedoms? Of course. So which rights should I be entitled to. Should I be entitled to the rights I think suit the freedoms I think would best suit me. Or should my mate Dave the 2nd have all his rights adhered to, does his rights mean more than mine and should they affect my freedoms? No of course not, so why should my rights I want affect someone else.
Soooo, we can now look at the best outcome. Everyone gets the rights and freedoms they want. Dave the 3rd, my other mate has come up with a new religion, he wants everyone to adhere to his religious beliefs, if he can't have his religious beliefs then he isn't free, if we don't give him his freedoms then we are wrong. But Dave the 3rds belief means he's free to beat someone every Sunday or drink himself to senselessness every 3rd day. That's not right I shout over my fence to dave the 3rd, dave tells me to shut up and tend my 3 cows as that's my freedom. I've not even taken into account my cows freedoms, do they want to be kept in a field and chopped up for Sunday dinner...
What me and the Daves are getting at is freedom is very very subjective. 99% of us will want differing versions of a similar nicey nice existence. The other 1% will want shit most of us would have nightmares about. But who right. If we are going to play I want my freedoms then are we really in a position to tell the 1% they cant have theirs, Are the majority right and should the majority get their freedoms and rights over the minority? It's a minefield and we have created it.
Earlier in this topic, I had to play mr admin and remind someone of the forum rules regarding talk of a class, dmt. The person broke no moral rules imo, the comment was valid to this topic. But if we don't stand by some rules then the next person will claim they use heroin for an out-of-body experience or spiritual awakening. If the first instance wasn't corrected as per the few rules we have here then what right do I have to stop someone talking about a heroin binge for spiritual reasons if it comes up. Im using this example as it's one on our little corner of the net and makes a point I'm getting to. 1 person's perspective or right may and unfortunately allow the next to push further or not be a belief or perspective of the next person. Before you know it, it breaks down. (The post im mentioning is purely to give an example to my post). This is no different to the rules or laws of a society or country. Most of us are good genuine people who will respect and very occasionally break a rule in a country, not through malice, not for self-gain. But many will not, many will use every advantage to for personal gain, to get above the person standing next to them, and here comes that word again... Freedoms, if I want my freedoms, shouldn't they be allowed to abuse a system, break a rule for personal gain should that thei be their idea of freedom or right?
The harsh reality is we can't have all the freedoms we want in life. The reason isn't governments, it's not unfair systems, it's us, the people. Yes, governments come up with some mad shit and I trust none of them. But it's us, we need to work out a lot of shit long before we can expect governments to for us.
Some more relevant examples I could use are governments and/or big companies watching what we do, spying on us, from what we watch, what we buy, what we like to do in our spare time. If I have to listen to one more person create a google account to upload a video to a platform like youtube whose sole existence is to monetize our habits, just to talk about how they are going off-grid or tell people about how google is spying... I die a little bit inside every time I see shit like that. I mean, nobody wants to be spied on, wants their preference in take-out food or search results fed into an algorithm, but... how many are knowing using uber eats or searching for their next purchase on a smartphone while thinking about being spied on.
Humanity as a race has become spoilt, entitled. We don't want to be watched, we want all our freedoms, we want what we perceive to be free life. But we all feed the machine daily. We all sit on a laptop or phone within minutes of getting out of bed, get in our cars and tell Alexa or someone else to play our favorite music and want that new cup holder we been looking at delivered next working day.
We are the problem, not big brother, not Boris or Biden. We have allowed this to become our freedom, our reality. I'm not buying into any argument that we didn't see it coming, we know now, and I still want the latest Samsung, I still want my internet to load in 0.1 seconds, I do not want to wait 4 days for delivery of a parcel snd if I do t get it I'm gonna be pissed, sound familiar lol.
Soooooooo doom and gloom, or is it. Can it be changed, honestly I don't know. Could we all say enough us enough, yes? But you want the harsh brutal reality. If 5 people say they will shun modern technology, will not adhere to rules, will not use a phone... within a short period of time 2 will be because they are not getting the next day deliveries, the super-fast internet, the 4,918 tv channels. Its life. Our self-righteous entitlement is our freedom, and that's a freedom that will be the hardest fought for by the extreme largest majority.
We can all sit with our lots and think, I should have more, I dont want this, I do want that. But that's just not life. At least not what it's become, and that is on us.
After all that, can I be free, I mean me personally? After all I've said above. Yes, can I be financially free, materialistically free, probably not. If I had 10 million pounds tomorrow id probably find a reason I could do with more. But in my mind, yes 100%. How? stop fighting battles I cant win. I've been on forums for many years, I've seen life at its realist and fakest. I've seen people worry, fight, argue, all of that, and more. Being free is not letting things get you down. Being free is knowing that what you think is ok with you, who cares if it's ok with someone else. Can I be free with politics, yes, how? Who gives a shit what they are arguing about in parliament. Does it honestly effect my 3 kids and me stuffing a kfc bucket on a Friday night watching the latest Disney movie, it might, but I'm still sat sucking that finger-licking good chicken off my fingers while watching my 7 year old laugh his head off to some film like he's not a care in the world
Is the system fair? No. Do politicians really have my best interests at heart? No. Will the next rona variant or world crisis affect me? Maybe. But fuck me, worrying about that shit, arguing about it, dreading it... that's not freedom. I take what freedoms I can get. Walk my dog, kick a ball around with my boys, watch a family film, wonder how lucky I am to have family around me, a roof over my head, and a little to much food in my belly. That people is freedom, a real freedom I can touch, feel, taste and smell. If I go to bed now worrying about all the stuff I cant have in life, all the things the 3 Daves and that cow want, then I'm gonna wake up worrying or thinking about it even more tomorrow and the freedoms I just mentioned will be a little less enjoyable.
That's not me giving up, that's not me becoming a number in a system. I'm trying really hard not to use current events to describe my points as that will always get somes back up, why? because my freedom or right to have an opinion on certain things isnt theirs. But who do we listen to create our freedoms? a government? no, then who. Dave the 3rd, 2nd, the cow in the field. I think people put far to much credit into governments' hands imho. They are just like us, see a new issue like rona, are baffled to fook, have to work off the data they have, make a decision, and hope its ok. Yes, hope its ok. Its all-new, these politicians are all about themselves, im no idiot, their friends and family will get contracts, benefit from their politician brothers or mothers position, but covid, world crisis, they are as clueless as you and me and have to make decisions as they are the ones on power. I don't have nhs track and trace before my next bit... The number of people I see on social media screaming about nhs track and trace, the government wanting to know where you going, where you've been, I see people losing their minds over this stuff, how their freedoms are gone. But they are screaming to a social group on a social network for all to see and doing so on a platform that they know is tracking where they are, who they sat next to, what speed they moving, and can tell if they are asleep or not....... That is the state we as humanity have got ourselves into, that's the level of self-righteousness we are devolving into. "I will not allow you to trace me, but because I want my rights heard im going to let someone else trace me so I can shout about my rights".
Fight the battles you can win, be nice, enjoy friends and family and think about how actions affect others. thats about all the freedom I need, Lifes to short at the best of times.
All deep and wonderful ideas to get lost in. My outlook is both a bit doom and gloom but also beautiful and enlightening in the fact it's doom and gloom... yep, head fuck inbound I think.
I'll start with what freedoms do we have. Not many to be honest. But should we expect a lot of them? I mean what is freedom to you, what is freedom to me. Is freedom me being able to do what I please with my life? Sounds beautiful eh. A nice bit of land with enough livestock and area go be self sufficient. Thats my idea of heaven. But what about my mate dave, dave wants to be able to do nothing all day and be fed. I tell dave, "come on mate, muck in a bit, give us a hand with the food growing and we all get fed". But dave tells me to do one, Dave tells me my idea of freedoms was a bit of land with some cows, his idea of freedom is to sit in the next field and be fed. Whos entitled to their freedoms in a scenario like that.
Now let's look at rights. Are my rights affected by freedoms? Of course. So which rights should I be entitled to. Should I be entitled to the rights I think suit the freedoms I think would best suit me. Or should my mate Dave the 2nd have all his rights adhered to, does his rights mean more than mine and should they affect my freedoms? No of course not, so why should my rights I want affect someone else.
Soooo, we can now look at the best outcome. Everyone gets the rights and freedoms they want. Dave the 3rd, my other mate has come up with a new religion, he wants everyone to adhere to his religious beliefs, if he can't have his religious beliefs then he isn't free, if we don't give him his freedoms then we are wrong. But Dave the 3rds belief means he's free to beat someone every Sunday or drink himself to senselessness every 3rd day. That's not right I shout over my fence to dave the 3rd, dave tells me to shut up and tend my 3 cows as that's my freedom. I've not even taken into account my cows freedoms, do they want to be kept in a field and chopped up for Sunday dinner...
What me and the Daves are getting at is freedom is very very subjective. 99% of us will want differing versions of a similar nicey nice existence. The other 1% will want shit most of us would have nightmares about. But who right. If we are going to play I want my freedoms then are we really in a position to tell the 1% they cant have theirs, Are the majority right and should the majority get their freedoms and rights over the minority? It's a minefield and we have created it.
Earlier in this topic, I had to play mr admin and remind someone of the forum rules regarding talk of a class, dmt. The person broke no moral rules imo, the comment was valid to this topic. But if we don't stand by some rules then the next person will claim they use heroin for an out-of-body experience or spiritual awakening. If the first instance wasn't corrected as per the few rules we have here then what right do I have to stop someone talking about a heroin binge for spiritual reasons if it comes up. Im using this example as it's one on our little corner of the net and makes a point I'm getting to. 1 person's perspective or right may and unfortunately allow the next to push further or not be a belief or perspective of the next person. Before you know it, it breaks down. (The post im mentioning is purely to give an example to my post). This is no different to the rules or laws of a society or country. Most of us are good genuine people who will respect and very occasionally break a rule in a country, not through malice, not for self-gain. But many will not, many will use every advantage to for personal gain, to get above the person standing next to them, and here comes that word again... Freedoms, if I want my freedoms, shouldn't they be allowed to abuse a system, break a rule for personal gain should that thei be their idea of freedom or right?
The harsh reality is we can't have all the freedoms we want in life. The reason isn't governments, it's not unfair systems, it's us, the people. Yes, governments come up with some mad shit and I trust none of them. But it's us, we need to work out a lot of shit long before we can expect governments to for us.
Some more relevant examples I could use are governments and/or big companies watching what we do, spying on us, from what we watch, what we buy, what we like to do in our spare time. If I have to listen to one more person create a google account to upload a video to a platform like youtube whose sole existence is to monetize our habits, just to talk about how they are going off-grid or tell people about how google is spying... I die a little bit inside every time I see shit like that. I mean, nobody wants to be spied on, wants their preference in take-out food or search results fed into an algorithm, but... how many are knowing using uber eats or searching for their next purchase on a smartphone while thinking about being spied on.
Humanity as a race has become spoilt, entitled. We don't want to be watched, we want all our freedoms, we want what we perceive to be free life. But we all feed the machine daily. We all sit on a laptop or phone within minutes of getting out of bed, get in our cars and tell Alexa or someone else to play our favorite music and want that new cup holder we been looking at delivered next working day.
We are the problem, not big brother, not Boris or Biden. We have allowed this to become our freedom, our reality. I'm not buying into any argument that we didn't see it coming, we know now, and I still want the latest Samsung, I still want my internet to load in 0.1 seconds, I do not want to wait 4 days for delivery of a parcel snd if I do t get it I'm gonna be pissed, sound familiar lol.
Soooooooo doom and gloom, or is it. Can it be changed, honestly I don't know. Could we all say enough us enough, yes? But you want the harsh brutal reality. If 5 people say they will shun modern technology, will not adhere to rules, will not use a phone... within a short period of time 2 will be because they are not getting the next day deliveries, the super-fast internet, the 4,918 tv channels. Its life. Our self-righteous entitlement is our freedom, and that's a freedom that will be the hardest fought for by the extreme largest majority.
We can all sit with our lots and think, I should have more, I dont want this, I do want that. But that's just not life. At least not what it's become, and that is on us.
After all that, can I be free, I mean me personally? After all I've said above. Yes, can I be financially free, materialistically free, probably not. If I had 10 million pounds tomorrow id probably find a reason I could do with more. But in my mind, yes 100%. How? stop fighting battles I cant win. I've been on forums for many years, I've seen life at its realist and fakest. I've seen people worry, fight, argue, all of that, and more. Being free is not letting things get you down. Being free is knowing that what you think is ok with you, who cares if it's ok with someone else. Can I be free with politics, yes, how? Who gives a shit what they are arguing about in parliament. Does it honestly effect my 3 kids and me stuffing a kfc bucket on a Friday night watching the latest Disney movie, it might, but I'm still sat sucking that finger-licking good chicken off my fingers while watching my 7 year old laugh his head off to some film like he's not a care in the world
Is the system fair? No. Do politicians really have my best interests at heart? No. Will the next rona variant or world crisis affect me? Maybe. But fuck me, worrying about that shit, arguing about it, dreading it... that's not freedom. I take what freedoms I can get. Walk my dog, kick a ball around with my boys, watch a family film, wonder how lucky I am to have family around me, a roof over my head, and a little to much food in my belly. That people is freedom, a real freedom I can touch, feel, taste and smell. If I go to bed now worrying about all the stuff I cant have in life, all the things the 3 Daves and that cow want, then I'm gonna wake up worrying or thinking about it even more tomorrow and the freedoms I just mentioned will be a little less enjoyable.
That's not me giving up, that's not me becoming a number in a system. I'm trying really hard not to use current events to describe my points as that will always get somes back up, why? because my freedom or right to have an opinion on certain things isnt theirs. But who do we listen to create our freedoms? a government? no, then who. Dave the 3rd, 2nd, the cow in the field. I think people put far to much credit into governments' hands imho. They are just like us, see a new issue like rona, are baffled to fook, have to work off the data they have, make a decision, and hope its ok. Yes, hope its ok. Its all-new, these politicians are all about themselves, im no idiot, their friends and family will get contracts, benefit from their politician brothers or mothers position, but covid, world crisis, they are as clueless as you and me and have to make decisions as they are the ones on power. I don't have nhs track and trace before my next bit... The number of people I see on social media screaming about nhs track and trace, the government wanting to know where you going, where you've been, I see people losing their minds over this stuff, how their freedoms are gone. But they are screaming to a social group on a social network for all to see and doing so on a platform that they know is tracking where they are, who they sat next to, what speed they moving, and can tell if they are asleep or not....... That is the state we as humanity have got ourselves into, that's the level of self-righteousness we are devolving into. "I will not allow you to trace me, but because I want my rights heard im going to let someone else trace me so I can shout about my rights".
Fight the battles you can win, be nice, enjoy friends and family and think about how actions affect others. thats about all the freedom I need, Lifes to short at the best of times.
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
To be truely free though, you would have to be selfish in one respect. Then if you look at dictation and control you could also read between the lines and take what you percieve to be best for you and the people in your life. Everything can contradict itself in it's own right.
Life is too short @Keeno Live every day like it is your last they say. I always think, how could I improve myself and every situation I get into. Getting angry about things that weren't in my control is what I used to do. Just let go and take things as they come.
Life is too short @Keeno Live every day like it is your last they say. I always think, how could I improve myself and every situation I get into. Getting angry about things that weren't in my control is what I used to do. Just let go and take things as they come.
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Keeno
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
Spot on mate. We can't have everything we want unless someone else doesn't get what they want. To want everything we want makes us selfish by definition. A bit of a messed up world lol.DIY.Rik wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 12:05 pmTo be truely free though, you would have to be selfish in one respect. Then if you look at dictation and control you could also read between the lines and take what you percieve to be best for you and the people in your life. Everything can contradict itself in it's own right.
Life is too short @Keeno Live every day like it is your last they say. I always think, how could I improve myself and every situation I get into. Getting angry about things that weren't in my control is what I used to do. Just let go and take things as they come.
I think as I get older I'm willing to settle for less, whether that's age showing me that wanting all my rights and freedoms is a selfish way to be, or I'm just getting grumpier I don't know.
The irony that this topic was started with a video posted by an anonymous group to warn people about how little freedoms they have, but posted on a platform that's the epiphany of those freedoms being exploited is not lost on me.
As you say Rik, if we all tried to do our best for ourselves, the people around us, and the world we live in then I think the world would right itself, and freedoms that we think we need and ones we actually need would balance out.
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dal
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
@Marcus nice one mate how you finding the change, is it as you expected? That's what I'm on about these days is planning my full retirement from the rat race I have always been half way there mind lol since taking my youngest on adventure hols in Preseli I have fallen in love with the place, been going there for a few years now and watching prices rise especially the past two years. I found one place that had a barn conversion as well with the farm house as main dwelling and all for a good price could've likely done a like for like with mine being sold, the good thing was the holiday let barn conversion pulled in 18k minimum per year and is still booked up till 2023 lol. I like Wales a lot plenty of room and open spaces, used to be a big fan of the west country but for me Wales is the place or even Spain now I can see what I can get for the same price!Marcus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:29 amYou have a good plan there!dal wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:42 pm@Marcus Don't forget to use protection at all times, don't wanna start becoming all corporate and cuntish lol I got five years and hopefully be selling up and off to Wales in Pembrokeshire by the sea where I'll spend my days enjoying the beauty that there is there eating liberty caps and walking the country and coastal walks while still growing copious amounts weed
We've just got out of the rat race and moved to Wales 6 months ago. I'm down Aberystwyth way now.
Only issue is, I keep tripping over sheep... the crafty little buggers.
dals' grows: G13 Haze - viewtopic.php?f=26&t=15988&p=273601&hil ... ze#p273601 - current
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2-Scoops
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
I believe in life Dave theirs nowt down for being brown-bread
Yes indeed brother.
Worms bellies
Ditto to that one mukka.
Lol @Keeno. Prolly not though but im not a cow, but i defo want a roast beef Sunday dinner.I've not even taken into account my cows freedoms, do they want to be kept in a field and chopped up for Sunday dinner...
"But your still looking at me that same damn way............ Like i just shit in your scrambled eggs" > Negan, Walking Dead
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Marcus
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
Yeah, it's all cool here. The change is appreciated. Kinda feels like we're at the edge of the flat earth round here when I go for a walk down to the beach.dal wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 1:53 pm@Marcus nice one mate how you finding the change, is it as you expected? That's what I'm on about these days is planning my full retirement from the rat race I have always been half way there mind lol since taking my youngest on adventure hols in Preseli I have fallen in love with the place, been going there for a few years now and watching prices rise especially the past two years. I found one place that had a barn conversion as well with the farm house as main dwelling and all for a good price could've likely done a like for like with mine being sold, the good thing was the holiday let barn conversion pulled in 18k minimum per year and is still booked up till 2023 lol. I like Wales a lot plenty of room and open spaces, used to be a big fan of the west country but for me Wales is the place or even Spain now I can see what I can get for the same price!Marcus wrote: ↑Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:29 amYou have a good plan there!dal wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 10:42 pm@Marcus Don't forget to use protection at all times, don't wanna start becoming all corporate and cuntish lol I got five years and hopefully be selling up and off to Wales in Pembrokeshire by the sea where I'll spend my days enjoying the beauty that there is there eating liberty caps and walking the country and coastal walks while still growing copious amounts weed
We've just got out of the rat race and moved to Wales 6 months ago. I'm down Aberystwyth way now.
Only issue is, I keep tripping over sheep... the crafty little buggers.
Just been for a walk in a forest that's local. It's like Narnia. I hugged so many damn trees my arms ache now.
That time in the woodland is what freedom is all about to me. There is no past, no future, only the present moment...
And holding your hands against a tree, you can start to feel it's energy and hear it's stories.
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KD
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
I think there's 3 types of people in the world. Those with a service to self, those with a service to others and those somewhere in between. @Keeno is a prime example of someone with a polarity towards service to others. Neither polarity is wrong though. They'll just attract different energies into their lives.
I spent the whole of lock down praying I'd be better off once I went back to work. I also wanted to find a job that meant I no longer had to deal with the general public. First job I got offered was working in a kitchen with great pay! I believe the universe wants us to have what we truly want in life as our energy is a way for the universe to experience itself and through learning lessons in our life, we get closer to returning to the source. Very much like Hinduism without the tall tales of God's doing magical nonsense.
Now what I really want is to make a difference in my area. Help people to grow their own veg, recycle more and start worm farms. If I make money while doing so... Bonus. We have to give back to the earth though as a collective. The rulers and people in power clearly have a polarity towards service to self and they're winning.
Another thing I found on my journey was an experiment where 1% of a population of a town were sent into said town to meditate with the intention of spreading love and peace. After a year, crime rates had dropped. Hospital admissions had dropped and people had started looking out for each other and recycling n stuff like that. If it only takes 1% of the population to make a change, we could do it if we weren't being distracted by conflicts. We are the 99% after all. 99% of people working together would run over the ones in control but things like Facebook work on the reward system in our psychology so it'll never happen
@2-Scoops I didn't mean I believe in death lol
I believe we're only truly freed when we die is what I meant.
I spent the whole of lock down praying I'd be better off once I went back to work. I also wanted to find a job that meant I no longer had to deal with the general public. First job I got offered was working in a kitchen with great pay! I believe the universe wants us to have what we truly want in life as our energy is a way for the universe to experience itself and through learning lessons in our life, we get closer to returning to the source. Very much like Hinduism without the tall tales of God's doing magical nonsense.
Now what I really want is to make a difference in my area. Help people to grow their own veg, recycle more and start worm farms. If I make money while doing so... Bonus. We have to give back to the earth though as a collective. The rulers and people in power clearly have a polarity towards service to self and they're winning.
Another thing I found on my journey was an experiment where 1% of a population of a town were sent into said town to meditate with the intention of spreading love and peace. After a year, crime rates had dropped. Hospital admissions had dropped and people had started looking out for each other and recycling n stuff like that. If it only takes 1% of the population to make a change, we could do it if we weren't being distracted by conflicts. We are the 99% after all. 99% of people working together would run over the ones in control but things like Facebook work on the reward system in our psychology so it'll never happen
@2-Scoops I didn't mean I believe in death lol
I believe we're only truly freed when we die is what I meant.
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dal
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Re: How much freedom do we have?
@Marcus love this bit fella,
That time in the woodland is what freedom is all about to me. There is no past, no future, only the present moment...
Oh yes to that, neither exist either side of the present, the past is done and the future hasn't happened. I Have ancient woodlands where I am tend to spend most of my time in there with the pooch. It's pretty good at night as well much easier to see now all the foliage has gone.
That time in the woodland is what freedom is all about to me. There is no past, no future, only the present moment...
Oh yes to that, neither exist either side of the present, the past is done and the future hasn't happened. I Have ancient woodlands where I am tend to spend most of my time in there with the pooch. It's pretty good at night as well much easier to see now all the foliage has gone.
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